Experimental Read Only File System Drivers question

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Experimental Read Only File System Drivers question

Postby zork42 » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:53 am

Do I need to use the Experimental Read Only File System Drivers if copying using 2 USB caddies under Windows XP?

I'm a bit nervous about the "Experimental" word ;)

Is it safe to NOT use the drivers if I connect the caddies after WinXP has finished booting?
ie:
* boot XP
* connect the 2 USB caddies
* run "Windows Disk Management" (in Computer Management)
* do an "Initialize Disk" on both disks (??)
* run copy+
* double-click "Safely Remove Hardware" icon, and click Stop on both caddies
* unplug caddies

Or would it be safer to use the experimental drivers anyway?

Thanks
zork42
 

Postby pcbbc » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:40 am

Hi,

USB caddies are fairly safe. Where people usually run into problems is when they connect via internal IDE and Windows runs check disk at boot time.

I would advise against using the drives if you are at all unsure - especially as you are using USB caddies. There have been relatively few reported problems with them, and those that do have issues haven been resolved by un-installing.

zork42 wrote:* do an "Initialize Disk" on both disks (??)

You only need to do this on a brand new virgin disk. You will not even be given the option on an disk which has already been partitioned.

zork42 wrote:* double-click "Safely Remove Hardware" icon, and click Stop on both caddies

Personally I don't do this. As Windows should not have touched the drives I just power off the caddies and unplug.
However I can't see any harm in doing so, and it is good practice for other forms of removable media!

Good luck with your copy! Do not hesitate to report back.
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Postby zork42 » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:19 pm

Thanks for your comments!

/Zork_paranoid_bastard_mode = on ;)

pcbbc wrote:USB caddies are fairly safe. Where people usually run into problems is when they connect via internal IDE and Windows runs check disk at boot time.


As well as the boot-time disk checker problem (which I'm avoiding by using caddies), is there also the potential risk of Windows creating these folders on the Sky+ disk?

* System Restore folder
* Recycle bin folder
* "System Volume Information" folder

Any idea when/what causes windows to create the above folders on an HDD?

eg if I delete a file on C: after I've connected the USB caddies, will windows create a recycle bin on the drives in the caddies too?

pcbbc wrote:I would advise against using the drivers if you are at all unsure - especially as you are using USB caddies. There have been relatively few reported problems with them, and those that do have issues haven been resolved by un-installing.


Do most people use the drivers?
If most people use the drivers, then that might be the safest way to go.

I guess I have 2 concerns with the experimental drivers:
1. is there a risk that the drivers might actually damage the files on the Sky+ HDD?
2. is there a risk that the drivers might cause the files on the Sky+ HDD to be mis-read, and so copied incorrectly?

If you think the risk of (1) is very low, then the safest thing might be for me to take an image (using Acronis True Image or similar) of the Sky+ HDD first using the drivers, and another image while not using the drivers. If the 2 images are the same then (2) is not an issue.

Sorry for the new questions.
zork42
 

Postby pcbbc » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:42 pm

zork42 wrote:As well as the boot-time disk checker problem (which I'm avoiding by using caddies), is there also the potential risk of Windows creating these folders on the Sky+ disk?

* System Restore folder
* Recycle bin folder
* "System Volume Information" folder
There is, but due to the nature of the Sky file system, creation of these files is (for all practical purposes) entirely safe.

Any idea when/what causes windows to create the above folders on an HDD?
The System Volume Information folder is created by System Restore. To disable:
Start the System Control Panel applet. Select the System Restore tab. Clear the "Turn off System Restore on all drives" check box to enable System Restore, or select this check box to disable System Restore. Click OK.
I find as long as I do not interfere with the volume (e.g. attempt to delete files fom it, which you shouldn't do anyway) the recycle bin does not get created.

e.g. if I delete a file on C: after I've connected the USB caddies, will windows create a recycle bin on the drives in the caddies too?
Maybe, I don't know. Perhaps best avoided?
But as I said previously, creation of these files is not serious. Sky just ignore/delete them.

Do most people use the drivers?
If most people use the drivers, then that might be the safest way to go.
I've really not much idea!
Going by the number of downloads I will assume not.

I guess I have 2 concerns with the experimental drivers:
1. is there a risk that the drivers might actually damage the files on the Sky+ HDD?
2. is there a risk that the drivers might cause the files on the Sky+ HDD to be mis-read, and so copied incorrectly?
I hesitate to say never, but I can not see a circumstance when either of these scenarios would occur.
a) The drivers are simply a recompile of the FastFAT driver from the Microsoft driver development kit. So the exact same code that is running under XP for normal FAT volumes. It has been modified ever so slightly to return the read only volume status (same as for other non-writable media like CDs) for Sky FAT32 volumes. There's also a File System Recogniser in there to load the modified driver for FAT32 volumes, and let the standard Windows file system recogniser pick up all other FAT volumes and load the standard unmodified FastFAT driver.
b) They are file system drivers. Copy+ operates at a level below the file system by reading and writing to the disk sectors at the disk device driver level. Therefore the file system level is completely bypassed for the copy operation.

The worst possible outcome of the drivers it that they may crash. A boot to last known good configuration, or system restore point will usually get you out of that. Then just un-install the drivers!
On the rare occasions I've had blue screens reported it has always been when the Sky disk was attached. Without a drive the system booted just fine, so just remove the disk, boot and un-install the drivers.

If you think the risk of (1) is very low, then the safest thing might be for me to take an image (using Acronis True Image or similar) of the Sky+ HDD first using the drivers, and another image while not using the drivers. If the 2 images are the same then (2) is not an issue.
Besides the points above, and that any disk imaging software almost certainly bypasses the file system drivers in the same way Copy+ does, no commercial disk imaging software is going to make accurate images of XTVFS volumes. The only exception is if the software makes no assumptions about the file system and does a raw sector by sector copy of the file system. Even if compressed such an image, by the nature of Sky+ file system (lots of already compressed video data) such an image is going to be very large in all but the most trivial cases.

You said it yourself - I think you really are operating in paranoid mode here!
I have yet to have anyone lose their recordings, as long as they follow these very simple rules:
1. Make a successful copy of your Sky drive and then get that copy working in the destination box
2. Do NOT return the source disk to Sky+ until you have completed the above step
3. If you are unable to complete step 1, contact me for advice! Just about everything you do up until you return a damaged Sky+ disk to Sky+ is fixable*!

*Unless you were to do something like delete the partition off it and low level format it - Which would be incredibly careless and stupid!
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